A little over a decade ago, a small Israeli company created what would become the world’s most powerful and notorious hacking tool.

Mark Mazzetti, who is a Washington investigative correspondent for The Times, explains the surprising story of the NSO Group and why, despite banning its technology, the United States kept trying to use it.

Guest: Mark Mazzetti, a Washington investigative correspondent for The New York Times.

Background reading:

• The Biden administration has been trying to choke off use of hacking tools made by the Israeli firm NSO. It turns out that not every part of the government has gotten the message.
• The president signed an executive order seeking to limit deployment of a tool that has been abused by autocracies — and some democracies — to spy on dissidents, human rights activists and journalists.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.



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